Pris, our point is that we shouldn't put all Muslims into one group. There might be some who believe in the murders and think it's okay (same can be said for people in any religion, they would be radicals), but that is not all Muslims. Many people cannot make this distinction and instead they hate all Muslims.
I do not want to help those who want to kill me, I want to help those who end up in the crossfire brought on by terrorists within their community. See the difference?
I just read a story about a man who stabbed his transgendered daughter to death for being part of a "cult". Do you know what the cult was? Being part of the LGBT community. Do you know why he did it? It was against his Christian beliefs.
Now, would you say all Christians believe in killing their transgendered children? Nope, but some extremists obviously think it's better to kill than to allow someone to continue "sinning" in their eyes.
Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 16, 2015 13:48:09 GMT -5
And think about Belfast in the '70s. Catholics and Protestants were killing innocent people and defenseless children, but they would still go to Church. Hypocrisy.
Post by priscillams on Feb 17, 2015 10:10:59 GMT -5
Heather, unfortunately mental illness is a disease that can affect even Christians. The child's murder you describe is surely a tragedy. But I believe the murderer must truly be mentally ill for murder is part of God's Ten Commandments.
I know nothing of the Koran. But if this Islamic sect can utliize any part of it to justify such brutal mass murder, then this goes beyond mental illness.
Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 17, 2015 11:52:11 GMT -5
I've read the Koran (English translation) and found it to be very close to the Bible. It just seems like whether you read the Bible or the Koran, there are evil people out there that have absolutely no respect for their particular Bible.
I believe anyone who can justify murder in the name of their religion has something wrong with them mentally. Every religion has a peaceful side, and usually that is what the majority of those who practice focus on. Even the bible has murder and destruction in it, and people can choose to focus on that and replicate it if they want, but thankfully most do not.
It compares some of the violence written in both books and talks about radicals taking their own readings out of context to justify their acts. Anyone in any religion can easily do this, so do not put blame on the religion as a whole. No sane person would do or teach any of these things. It's a terrorist cult; that is all. We know Christians kill in the name of their religion as well, and it still happens, but we do not put all Christians into that group. Why not feel the same when it happens with other religions?
The Quran tells people not to kill as well and that is what most Muslims believe in. Muslims are offended when you compare them to the terrorists. You would be, too, if it were your own religion being distorted and abused and yet everyone put you into the same category. You can support Muslims without supporting the terrorists. You can be on their side to fight against those destroying their community and casting a negative view on their religion. It's the humane thing to do, and I would do it for any society in any country. I am against terrorists, all types in all places.
You know, I read comments from plenty of Christians online who want to practice the genocide that takes place in the Bible. People like that always mention blowing up the entire country, or even the continent, to destroy all Muslims. There are also those who want to kill all Jews and kill all gays. Preachers have sermons discussing these things sometimes (caught on tape), and they will have followers believing what they say. This type of stuff occurs in pretty much every religion, and it is not normal, it is not sane, and it is not the majority. Keep that in mind.
Post by priscillams on Feb 17, 2015 12:30:35 GMT -5
I don't think any of us here differ much in how we think and what it is we value. That is a good thing. (Of course we do differ in some ways...that's why I come here. And I know I can be a trouble maker God knows.) But this ISIS thing bugs me a lot, it is evil and must be stopped. This is how I feel....
Obama’s trouble comes from his failure to understand the difference between civilization and barbarism. And believe me ISIS isn’t civilized.
What I think he (the president) should do is….
Invite all nations with a commitment to peace to join a new international defensive alliance to include every country threatened by Islamofascist terrorism. So far that includes India, Japan, France, Denmark, Eastern Europe. Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Britain are already there. All they need is credible assurances that we are all in this together.
Signs of genuine statesmanship are emerging in Europe and the Middle East. It is America’s failure to lead that keeps political elites sitting on the fence. If even France can call this a war against Islamist terrorism, so why can’t America. Europe is ready. Countries like Egypt and India are ready.
Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 17, 2015 12:42:03 GMT -5
Great idea, Pris. I think that Barack is trying to do that with this country's European allies, but it should be expanded.
And Heather, Godianism is a religion where you believe in one God and everything else is speculation. To be a true Godian you have to treat people nicely every single day.
The Jewish Muslim and Christian religions are all whats known as Abrahamic, meaning they share a common basis in Abraham. The Koran recognises Christ as a prophet and the Torah is basically the 5 books of the old testement.
But of course too many people would rather look at whats different and argue the point than look at whats similar and find common ground.
Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 17, 2015 13:32:01 GMT -5
Hi Cass and you're right. In the Koran Jesus was revered as a prophet, but they followed Muhammad. They also loved Moses! That's why the two books have similarities.
Post by priscillams on Feb 18, 2015 5:50:55 GMT -5
I'm doubtful I could find much common ground with these people that use their faith to justify and glorify the beheading and burning alive of other human beings.
If I understand these particular people at all it is that they believe their barbaric actions and conquest are all "God's will". If so, then doesn't it follow that military defeat is the only way to make them understand God is not on their side?
Western religions, may not be so extreme as that. But I have seen these religious groups in America that spoil the funerals of soldiers killed in Afghanistan because they are gay.
I'm doubtful I could find much common ground with these people that use their faith to justify and glorify the beheading and burning alive of other human beings.
If I understand these particular people at all it is that they believe their barbaric actions and conquest are all "God's will". If so, then doesn't it follow that military defeat is the only way to make them understand God is not on their side?
Nobody is telling you to find common ground with the terrorists or sympathize with them. They are terrorists and should be stopped, plain and simple.
The common ground is to be found with the society they are terrorizing. Do not punish them because the terrorists claim to have the same religion. The terrorists have a very distorted view of the religion, and it is not the religion itself that is at fault.
ISIS is killing Muslims who disagree with their actions, too; more Muslims are being killed than anything else. They do not just target Christians like some media outlets might attempt to make it seem. They kill anyone and everyone who isn't "one of them".
It's all of us versus them, that's what we must remember.
Last Edit: Feb 18, 2015 12:03:39 GMT -5 by heatherly
Post by priscillams on Feb 18, 2015 12:57:21 GMT -5
True enough Heather, us versus them, civilization versus barbarism.
I do wonder, if nothing is done how long will it take before such violence no longer shocks people? Instead it becomes the "new normal". My guess, not long.
Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 18, 2015 13:22:20 GMT -5
I originally thought that the US shouldn't deal with ISIS militarily, but I've changed my mind. I heard a show on public radio where the 3 guests said the primary goal of ISIS was to create Apocalypse; Screw them! Go after these people wherever their rat-holes are.
Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 18, 2015 13:48:57 GMT -5
Any religion that believes that murder is acceptable is a false religion; Islam is a good religion that has been tarnished by the actions of radical idiots.
Any religion that believes that murder is acceptable is a false religion; Islam is a good religion that has been tarnished by the actions of radical idiots.
Have you all been reading about how they are recruiting our own impressionable (stupid) teens from the US, UK, and other areas?
They do it online, of course. They are lying to them, brainwashing them (basically), and attempting to give them a purpose in life by asking them to join their "cause". They do not say what their cause really is, they make it sound like it's for good reasons, though. We all know when you are young it's common that you are searching for a "purpose", and you feel you don't fit in. They are taking advantage of this...
They really need to be stopped.
Pris, we might enter a time where we're no longer shocked by such actions (desensitization can happen when you are bombarded with that type of news too much) , but I still think we'll be strongly against such things forever. As long as we don't become passive, then I think we'll be okay. I cannot imagine humans ever becoming completely passive. After all, it's part of nature to fight.
Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 18, 2015 19:08:53 GMT -5
Yes. That's why I said in my earlier post that we should go after the bastards (well, I didn't say bastards, but that's what they are). This is so unlike me, but enough is enough. Get rid of the vermin!
Post by priscillams on Feb 19, 2015 9:47:46 GMT -5
There are lies and then there are lies.
If I say I feel ill and can’t make it to the gym with my friend but really I just feel lazy. Then I have lied true enough.
However, if I swear on the life of my mother (son, daughter etc.) something is true, but in truth I am in fact lying, to me that lie is profoundly worse. For I am calling in a third party to my lie and doing so to add power to what I have said.
Therefore to me, when in a court in the USA a person takes the oath “I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth SO HELP ME GOD”, doesn’t this religious reference add mystery and power to the oath?
I think even if I were an atheist, I would understand the very necessary reason for such a reference to a higher power.
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